| Author |
 Topic  |
|
bigD
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2012 : 09:41:08
|
I have a site with a Red Jacket Pro Plus that is Giving "probe out". It is an older store that had been upgraded from an early model gilbarco tank monitor. The first think I checked was the field wiring and found that it was THHN and not shielded cable. I pulled shielded cable thinking this was definitely the problem or at least one of the problems. The next morning it showed probe out again. I went over his print outs from earlier that month and noticed that it was happening on all tanks and was always at the same time every night(7:45-8:30 PM). IT IS always back to "ALL FUNCTIONS NORMAL" by morning.
I verified the power source and found it to be on it's own circuit with
the grounds connected. For the sake of trying, I wired a power cord to the console and plugged it into a receptacle in the office. Same result.Thinking it was something software related and since it was happening at the same time, I backed the time to 6 hours earlier but it still happened around 7:30 pm real time. Any suggestions?
|
|
|
Sam1380
169 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 09:54:55
|
| Got noise happen at the same time every night a mic keyed up on a cop car or fire department truck or maybe a generator coming on ect. |
I'm not the way I am cause I'm Petro Tech I'm a Petro Tech cause the way I am.
Ya'll got all that stupid in one car |
 |
|
|
ZMiller
USA
1317 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2012 : 18:56:17
|
| What else is on the supposed dedicated line powering the monitor? What time do the canopy lights come on? What time does the pizza oven fire up? I had a customer once that had the problem when the store next door flipped on its store front lights. Turned out the guy had been paying his neighbors electric bill for three years. |
There are two theories to arguing with a woman:...neither work!
“It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something really stupid to say and then don't say it.”
|
|
|
|
bigD
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 14:08:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by ZMiller
What else is on the supposed dedicated line powering the monitor? What time do the canopy lights come on? What time does the pizza oven fire up? I had a customer once that had the problem when the store next door flipped on its store front lights. Turned out the guy had been paying his neighbors electric bill for three years.
It was the canopy lights!
|
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 16:51:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigD
quote:
Originally posted by ZMiller
What else is on the supposed dedicated line powering the monitor? What time do the canopy lights come on? What time does the pizza oven fire up? I had a customer once that had the problem when the store next door flipped on its store front lights. Turned out the guy had been paying his neighbors electric bill for three years.
It was the canopy lights!
Thanks for letting us know. Who figured it out? |
|
|
|
bigD
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 20:47:10
|
ZMiller mentioned the canopy lights and other possibilities. I called the customer the next morning, had him turn on the lights and check the monitor. Sure enough. Probe Out. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 07:14:27
|
One last question, what did you do to stop it from happening? In other words, how were the canopy lights causing the probes to "go out"?
Thanks, |
|
|
|
bigD
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 14:23:50
|
| I haven't gone back to the site yet but one of the things I tried was to wire it up to a cord and plug it into a receptacle in his office. That made no difference but the cord is still wired up. The customer is going to purchase a Tripplite 500 UPS and plug it into that. When I get a result, I will post it. |
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 16:52:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigD
I haven't gone back to the site yet but one of the things I tried was to wire it up to a cord and plug it into a receptacle in his office. That made no difference but the cord is still wired up. The customer is going to purchase a Tripplite 500 UPS and plug it into that. When I get a result, I will post it.
So how did you determine it is coming from the building power and not some interference on the conductors going to the probes (when the lights come on)? Possibly some grounding issues on the building structure wiring?
Do the probes stay "out" until the lights are turned off?
Just curious. |
|
|
|
ZMiller
USA
1317 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 20:53:39
|
This forum may be good for something after all. Yes I'll say there is a ground or conduit problem(s)somewhere. If the lighting is controlled through relays you would check there first. If lighting is not relay controlled then you may now know the reason that breaker switches were not designed to be flipped on and off every day. Bad breaker switches need to be checked (one just might a little warmer than the others. Any canopy lights that are not working may need ballast service.
Electricity is just one step this side of Black Magic you know so be carefull.
|
There are two theories to arguing with a woman:...neither work!
“It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something really stupid to say and then don't say it.”
|
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 21:20:42
|
You might also want to turn off one canopy light circuits one at a time to see if it's just one circuit or any if any of the circuits cause it.
You also may want to make sure there is a good ground between the canopy and the building grounding system. |
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 06:20:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by ZMiller
If lighting is not relay controlled then you may now know the reason that breaker switches were not designed to be flipped on and off every day.
Weeelll,
quote:
There is as you may intuitively have anticipated an exception. Some circuit breakers are manufactured for use in a specific type of application. When a circuit breaker is designed to also be routinely used as an on-off switch to control 277 volt florescent luminaires they are marked SWD, for switch duty. This does not mean that a switch duty breaker can be used to manually control a traffic signal light where it will be cycled 1,000 or more times per day. The point is; the listing for switch duty (SWD) does not mean a circuit breaker can be used as a high frequency cycling operating control, such as a relay that has a life span rated in tens, if not hundreds of thousands of duty cycles.
While circuit breakers can be legitimately and safely used as switches, the frequency and duration of such use is very limited. Routinely circuit breakers are manually operated for service-maintenance, and repair type activities. With the preceding enhancing our understanding; we can say that circuit breakers can legitimately be used as switches, generally they are not intended for prolonged frequent or repetitive manual breaking and making type control of electrical energy utilization equipment.
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NEC-HTML/HTML/ElectricalCircuitBreakers~20020419.htm |
|
|
|
ZMiller
USA
1317 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 09:38:30
|
| While the breaker its self may withstand being switched the connection in the breaker panel (where the breaker plugs into the breaker power feed bar) eventually will cause issues. "Bees humming in your breaker box" |
There are two theories to arguing with a woman:...neither work!
“It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something really stupid to say and then don't say it.”
|
|
|
|
hardworking
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 16:31:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by ZMiller
While the breaker its self may withstand being switched the connection in the breaker panel (where the breaker plugs into the breaker power feed bar) eventually will cause issues. "Bees humming in your breaker box"
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. |
|
|
|
bigD
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 19:04:14
|
I am scheduled to go back to the site Saturday. I appreciate the tips and will look into the canopy lighting further. The UPS did not make a difference and he did tell me that the probes stay out until the lights go off. I will keep you posted.
|
|
|
|
pumpguy
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2012 : 01:09:08
|
| I had a site with the same issue. Canopy lights and probe cables ran in the same trench side by side. Over the years the conduit rusted out. Probes were not connected with shielded cable but rather with THHN wire. 200 feet of direct burial shielded cable and problem solved. |
Is the big red button in or out? Yes the big one that says emergency shut off... Yes ma'am someone did touch it. I do not know who or why, I only know that someone pushed it. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
All Forums
Probe Out!
New Topic
Printer Friendly
Register Now! 
