| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ting |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 22:14:31
Our local authorities are enforcing that all sites with steel pipe have electronic leak detection. We installed incon line leak detectors because of the cost factor. Trenching wasn't an option. It's a marina with 3 hoses. Tokheim 2250's. We had the lines precision tested a couple of weeks ago. Line is about 700 ft long. 2" steel line. Intermittently the line fails a 3 gallon per hour test. Quite frequently too. Hooked up a gauge for 30 mins and the pressure held at 22 psi. A metal functional element check valve has been installed. Old red jacket 3/4 hp motors. One stp. It has passed a monthly test and annual text on the lld. Brand new units. Any thoughts? I don't see it being the leak detector oring because the pressure held. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| petro_tech60 |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 14:56:17
That is correct. TSLLD is volumetric and Auto Learn is pressure. The auto learn uses the LS300 pressure sensor. It is derived from the technology they bought when they acquired EBW. EBW got it from Campo Miller. The Auto Learn "learns" the line characteristics by putting the system in learn mode and installing a 3.0 gph leak generator in a impact valve. The TSLLD volumetric is extremely accurate but is reduces the flow rate by 15 to 20 percent. It uses the sub pump AC wires to send it's signal to the controller. |
| hardworking |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 11:30:23
quote:
Originally posted by duckpj
As far as I know they actually are a pressure sensor, not a flow sensor.
From the Franklin website:
"The INCON TS-LLD Line Leak Detector uses patented, flow-based technology to perform multiple line tightness tests."
And where you can't tolerate the pressure drop across the TS-LLD, "In such cases we recommend our AutoLearn™ pressure based electronic leak line detector."
Apparently they have both flow and pressure based LLDs.
You can read it for yourself at http://www.franklinfueling.com/products/fms/ELLD_TS-LLD.asp |
| duckpj |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 07:54:00
As far as I know they actually are a pressure sensor, not a flow sensor. |
| petro_tech60 |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 06:46:21
exactly |
| hardworking |
Posted - 07/23/2012 : 14:42:18
quote:
Originally posted by petro_tech60
Incon TSLLD leak detectors are volumetric, not pressure. Seating pressure has nothing to do with it. They only work while the sub pump is running and no one is dispensing. When a hook signal goes hot, it quits testing. Also they will not sense any internal sub pump leak, only anything past the leak detector port. More than likely you have a dispenser or solenoid valve problem.
So the Incon console (when no pump signal is coming from a dispenser) will turn on the sub pump and monitor for fluid movement through the Incon TSLLD leak detectors? |
| petro_tech60 |
Posted - 07/23/2012 : 13:22:25
Incon TSLLD leak detectors are volumetric, not pressure. Seating pressure has nothing to do with it. They only work while the sub pump is running and no one is dispensing. When a hook signal goes hot, it quits testing. Also they will not sense any internal sub pump leak, only anything past the leak detector port. More than likely you have a dispenser or solenoid valve problem. |
| ting |
Posted - 07/22/2012 : 15:39:21
All piping is underground and yes they are the lld's that were installed. Lsu and cu. Seating pressure holds at 22 psi for at least an hour that I have seen. What I have found out is that they have wired each dispenser to the stp power. Not an ideal situation. They have 2 stps diesel and gas. Each stp breaker feeds one dispenser. Tokheim 2250's with micon 500 heads. Unfortunately I can't rewire the heads easily. It will be an extremely costly and timely matter. Could this pose an issue?
|
| Glenn Farmer |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 22:41:45
You have to love the knowledge that is available here. If you don't, you ate not paying attention.
So, the LLD is good up to 1000' as long as the STP and dispenser valves are doing their job properly? I would start there with a gauge and see how quickly the line is achieving seating pressure, what that seating pressure is and if it is consistent. Most importantly the consistency. |
| slanglie |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 15:31:48
Which Incon line leak detector? It sounds like the TS-LLD, the stand-alone unit with a small control module and the LSU installed in the STP.
You mentioned marina, is the pipe above ground? If so, it may be thermal stability related.
|
| ZMiller |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 12:52:57
Mr. Whittington you have been working for the government to long. |
| tankgenie |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 11:44:36
We had to interact with Franklin/Incon on a similar design. Copying their text (about concerns about our design): "The issue is that the line must have time to fully pressurize before any dispensing can begin. Also, the line must be able to close and pressurize completely before the submersible stops. If the configuration will allow a complete drop of line pressure before or after a dispense cycle, this will cause an issue with this type of leak detection." Not sure if this is the same issue at your site or not, but we wound up factoring in a timing delay in our dispensing controls, which we could do because its a fleet marina site, not retail. |
| whittingtonm |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 08:39:00
How tight is the inventory? Besides a leak, unless the 700-foot piping run is entirely within a security area, or maybe even if it is, could a neighbor be getting free gasoline? |
| ting |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 18:36:23
The pipe run is pretty level. I looked up the recommended pipe lengths and it said that it will work with runs up to 1000' of 2" pipe. I have contacted tech support but I haven't heard anything from them as of yet. |
| duckpj |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 09:59:33
I had forgotten about the diameter, we only run 3 inch so we keep our runs below 300. |
| whittingtonm |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 07:37:18
I wondered about that length of piping but the NWGLDE website (http://www.nwglde.org/evals/franklin_fueling_d.html) has a third party certification summary for INCON line leak detectors that says:
quote:
Maximum of 312.2 gallons for steel and fiberglass pipelines (examples: 480 feet of 4 inch line; 671 feet of 3 3/8 inch line ).
I didn't do the calculations, but that surely ought to cover 700 feet of two-inch line.
It's still something to ask INCON about.
Is this run of piping all downhill by any chance? |
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